Curse

manitoba1073 · Jul 13, 2009, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by shefdawg

Dude i seriously think you totally missing the point, it the point was a broad side of a barn door you hit the the next door neighbor's house, lol. We have already established it's not just one skill but rather three. And when was the last time that you have ever seen a warrior or a ranger speed clear one of these elite areas in 15 mins. or heck even be able to solo 9/10s of the game such as the perma sin can. I mean dude have you even read what the skill does, for such and such time ALLLLLLLLLLLL attacks against you fail and ALLLLLLLLL spells against you fail. WOW what a stupid skill to even add to this game to be honest, when this game is about the damage you take and ways to maybe reduce, or heal it up.

And as per everyone else arguing that these areas are not supposed to be hard that is crap cause look at them, URGOZ and the DEEP you cant even get to till you beat the game, same with DOA, THEY ARE ELITE. last time i looked at the word elite it did not say hey elite is just a tad bit harder than normal, its for people that know how to play but in this game any shmuck can do them, kind of disgusting if you ask me.

Oh really cause its quite funny I can prove that its not all skill or all attacks that fail againt SF. The point is that a War can also solo 90% of the game so according to your logic the War must be deleted from the game too then because of the skills it uses.

I hate to break this to you but there is never been a 15 min speed clear of UW with 1 sin. It required multiple players doing it at the same time to acheive that.

As far as who said the Elite zones were supposed to easy, noone has said that. However in GW case Elite doesnt mean only a select few have access to it.

Avarre · Jul 13, 2009, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Instead of taking or changing 1 little teeny tiny skill ( taking the steps to walk around said Wall ) you advocate nerfing it ( bashing the wall down ).

Straw man. Changing a skill in terms of a downgrade is what nerf means. Furthermore, you make the assumption that anyone against SF wants to see it eradicated, when it was acceptable before when it could not be infinitely maintained.

I have no idea why I even try discussing when you simply misread and warp what people say to fit your own opinions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

I hate to break this to you but there is never been a 15 min speed clear of UW with 1 sin. It required multiple players doing it at the same time to acheive that.

Compare the best solo sin timing to the best monk/nec duo timing.

manitoba1073 · Jul 13, 2009, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Straw man. Changing a skill in terms of a downgrade is what nerf means. Furthermore, you make the assumption that anyone against SF wants to see it eradicated, when it was acceptable before when it could not be infinitely maintained.

I have no idea why I even try discussing when you simply misread and warp what people say to fit your own opinions.

Compare the best solo sin timing to the best monk/nec duo timing.

Been there done that, you do realize the monk/necro team clears much faster over all than a single sin could.

The only one who wraps what ppl say and try to twist them is you. Or when the facts around here show your wrong you ban and or delete the posts.

Hate to break this to you also I know not everyone wants it eradicated, no assumption there, I know the individuals around here. And it was always able to be maintained infinitely in 1 form or another. However it still required more than itself to be done.

YunSooJin · Jul 13, 2009, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Been there done that, you do realize the monk/necro team clears much faster over all than a single sin could.

The only one who wraps what ppl say and try to twist them is you. Or when the facts around here show your wrong you ban and or delete the posts.

Hate to break this to you also I know not everyone wants it eradicated, no assumption there, I know the individuals around here. And it was always able to be maintained infinitely in 1 form or another. However it still required more than itself to be done.

dude you are just spewing misinformation and ignorance.. -.- a monk and necro team can clear it faster maybe but they can't do it SOLO. And the fact that sins do the zones in parallel mean that they finish much faster than a monk and necro team overall >_>.

It's pathetic to see you trying to defend SF when its entirely indefensible. I guess you have a lot vested in it, eh? But I guess that's what you would call bias.

manitoba1073 · Jul 14, 2009, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

dude you are just spewing misinformation and ignorance.. -.- a monk and necro team can clear it faster maybe but they can't do it SOLO. And the fact that sins do the zones in parallel mean that they finish much faster than a monk and necro team overall >_>.

It's pathetic to see you trying to defend SF when its entirely indefensible. I guess you have a lot vested in it, eh? But I guess that's what you would call bias.

No the only ones spewing misinformation around here are the likes of you. Now I nowhere did I say solo for a monk or necro. And the fact that niether do sins do it solo get that through that skull. It takes a full team to do it in each section to get the fast clears like that. Ofcourse a FULL TEAM of sins will clear faster than a duo of monk/necro. Plz take your ignorance outa here.

As far as defending SF, Ill defend every damn skill there is to protect them from stupidity. So yeah I did have alot invested in the game when it was once good. But I guess your failure to figure things out makes you bias.

Avarre · Jul 14, 2009, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Been there done that, you do realize the monk/necro team clears much faster over all than a single sin could.

So post the best times here. I asked you to compare them, not to make an unsupported statement agreeing with yourself. Here's an easier one - compare the best 2-assassin time to the best Monk/Nec time, then take into account that Mo/Ne teams were already considered overpowered in terms of SoA/SH survivability.

Quote:

Hate to break this to you also I know not everyone wants it eradicated, no assumption there

That was exactly my point. Why are you trying to argue again?

Quote:

I know the individuals around here.

Really now.

Arkantos · Jul 14, 2009, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Ofcourse a FULL TEAM of sins will clear faster than a duo of monk/necro. Plz take your ignorance outa here.

Two assassins can solo the entire the UW in 33 minutes, which is ridiculous.

Just throwing it out there.

fenix · Jul 14, 2009, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

No the only ones spewing misinformation around here are the likes of you. Now I nowhere did I say solo for a monk or necro. And the fact that niether do sins do it solo get that through that skull. It takes a full team to do it in each section to get the fast clears like that. Ofcourse a FULL TEAM of sins will clear faster than a duo of monk/necro. Plz take your ignorance outa here.

As far as defending SF, Ill defend every damn skill there is to protect them from stupidity. So yeah I did have alot invested in the game when it was once good. But I guess your failure to figure things out makes you bias.

Go look at the Screenshots section of the forums, at the best times thread.

Then try to tell me that SF isn't ridiculously overpowered.

YunSooJin · Jul 14, 2009, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

No the only ones spewing misinformation around here are the likes of you. Now I nowhere did I say solo for a monk or necro. And the fact that niether do sins do it solo get that through that skull. It takes a full team to do it in each section to get the fast clears like that. Ofcourse a FULL TEAM of sins will clear faster than a duo of monk/necro. Plz take your ignorance outa here.

As far as defending SF, Ill defend every damn skill there is to protect them from stupidity. So yeah I did have alot invested in the game when it was once good. But I guess your failure to figure things out makes you bias.

so what is your RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing problem? SF is broken cause it lets elite areas be cleared in under half an hour. Do you have any issues with this? Maybe? It doesn't motherRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing matter if it sucks in regular play cause NO ONE CARES. It only matters because it's broken as all shit when it matters.

Jesus how obtuse can you be?

MithranArkanere · Jul 14, 2009, 04:22 AM // 04:22

An elite area meant to take 2..4 hours made in 6 minutes by a single profession is something to look at.

Springfield can keep it spring, but the Speed clears must be deprived of their 'Speed', so they become more or less even for all professions.

SF was a cool idea but a bad design from the beginning, either too much downside or too much wffwct, never something in the middle. Must be reworked.

manitoba1073 · Jul 14, 2009, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Two assassins can solo the entire the UW in 33 minutes, which is ridiculous.

Just throwing it out there.

Wrong. Full of fail and tons of BS. They cant solo the entire under world in 33 mins. Sorry to inform you. They need to skip almost 90% of the UW in order to come close to that time. Yes thats right they have to skip 90% of the UW. So much for the Entire UW like you claim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Go look at the Screenshots section of the forums, at the best times thread.

Then try to tell me that SF isn't ridiculously overpowered.

I dont have to look in the SS forums. Ive put a few SS there in the farming section.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

So post the best times here. I asked you to compare them, not to make an unsupported statement agreeing with yourself. Here's an easier one - compare the best 2-assassin time to the best Monk/Nec time, then take into account that Mo/Ne teams were already considered overpowered in terms of SoA/SH survivability.
That was exactly my point. Why are you trying to argue again?
Really now.

I dont have to compare the times, it is you and a few others around here that making the unsupported claims. Go do it yourself first. As Ive alrdy done it both damn ways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

so what is your RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing problem? SF is broken cause it lets elite areas be cleared in under half an hour. Do you have any issues with this? Maybe? It doesn't motherRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing matter if it sucks in regular play cause NO ONE CARES. It only matters because it's broken as all shit when it matters.
Jesus how obtuse can you be?

NO IT DOESNT. Get it through your head. It takes a FULL TEAM and combination of other skills to do said speed runs and they are skipping 90% of it. Kinda funny how your claiming no one cares when theres plenty even on here claiming the opposite.

Tell you what let settle this once and for all. Give me a time and day, Ill load up GW and fraps, record it all and lets see the ENTIRE CLEAR as you claim in 33 mins. Grab whoever the hell you want, hell I'll provide the tomes to set there assasin up and the UW scroll. So either put up or shut up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

An elite area meant to take 2..4 hours made in 6 minutes by a single profession is something to look at.

Springfield can keep it spring, but the Speed clears must be deprived of their 'Speed', so they become more or less even for all professions.

SF was a cool idea but a bad design from the beginning, either too much downside or too much wffwct, never something in the middle. Must be reworked.

Say what. I hate to break it to you too, but after this long time if its taking your groups 2.5 hours as you claim its supposed to. WELL THEY JUST FAIL.

And Sins werent the only classes doing speed clears. Remember each class has there pros or cons otherwise you might as well just delete all but 1 class.

Arkantos · Jul 14, 2009, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Wrong. Full of fail and tons of BS. They cant solo the entire under world in 33 mins. Sorry to inform you. They need to skip almost 90% of the UW in order to come close to that time. Yes thats right they have to skip 90% of the UW. So much for the Entire UW like you claim.

How ironic. The person calling others ignorant is being ignorant himself. Sorry to inform you, but your post is full of fail. You shouldn't take my statement so literal. Of course they didn't solo every single enemy, there's no point in that. But they solo'd every quest, which is still ridiculously retarded.

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7343/33minduouw.jpg - 33 mins, sin and ele
http://ske.gwzocker.de/hayman/duouw3.jpg - 39 mins, 2 sins
http://www.imgbox.de/?img=g29111x29.jpg - 40 mins, 2 sins
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/a...0&d=1245674396 - 46 mins, 2 sins

And for the hell if it:

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8703/gw166g.jpg - 1:14, 1 sin

Sorry, you were saying? Next time you wanna say someone's post is full of fail and BS, you might wanna look around a bit. It helps to make you look less like an ass. I'm so sorry that you took the statement literally.

zwei2stein · Jul 14, 2009, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

How ironic. The person calling others ignorant is being ignorant himself. Sorry to inform you, but your post is full of fail. You shouldn't take my statement so literal. Of course they didn't solo every single enemy, there's no point in that. But they solo'd every quest, which is still ridiculously retarded.

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7343/33minduouw.jpg - 33 mins, sin and ele
http://ske.gwzocker.de/hayman/duouw3.jpg - 39 mins, 2 sins
http://www.imgbox.de/?img=g29111x29.jpg - 40 mins, 2 sins
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/a...0&d=1245674396 - 46 mins, 2 sins

And for the hell if it:

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8703/gw166g.jpg - 1:14, 1 sin

Sorry, you were saying? Next time you wanna say someone's post is full of fail and BS, you might wanna look around a bit. It helps to make you look less like an ass. I'm so sorry that you took the statement literally.

33 mins one is actually interesting. Ele instead of perma, huh?

You know what, that could have been two eles easily, because obsi/slivers terra is basically just as immortal as perma and not much slower.

Guess those guys could comfortably do it as two eles. and for some reason, i would think that duo of 600s/smiters would not fare much worse.

See, here is the damn issue: lots of UW can be easily soloed, and in team full of soloers there is no problem assigning perfect solo-counter to each subregion.

Now that idea of solo-splits is mainstream, there is no way stopping UW speed clears without redesigning area because nerfed build would simply get replaced by next-best one.

Only answer is to put there direct counters that would mess up most farming builds (energy costs, recharges, casting time, durations ...) or to make sure that group can not split but instead has to do quests one by one (by, say, having vital NPC follow party - if party splits he would end up following one soloing party member and most likely die.)

Fril Estelin · Jul 14, 2009, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

See, here is the damn issue: lots of UW can be easily soloed, and in team full of soloers there is no problem assigning perfect solo-counter to each subregion.

The ultimate idea: collectively clear UW in 15 mins by a team of 8 permasins.

Ty Arkantos for stopping this stupid part of the discussion.

The game was nerver meant to be played like that. Breaking a record once or twice is fun, perfecting a method is cool, but farming these speed objectives is ridiculous.

Look at me, I've got 3000e and I can buy an unded Island Guardian! So much for being unique, I'm not a farmer, I'm a player!

Shanaeri Rynale · Jul 14, 2009, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Pve was broken long before perma sins et al came in, in a way it was always broken. Even candy canes broke PvE to some extent and that was back in 2005. To me however the tipping point came woth nightfall. Skills vastly increased in power, just to be able to allow players to 'over power' the zerged up mobs later on in the game(I wont even bother to mention how badly designed DoA is) . To help, Anet then introduced game breaking consumables and PvE skills which although useful(perhaps even essential) in areas such as DoA, allow the complete obliteration of any other area of the game.

Anet could have gone two ways(well three I guess). They could have removed cons sets, pve skills, rebalanced areas and nerfed the super power skills, They could have increased the difficulty of the other elite areas or (and this is what they did I think) is go 'To hell with balance and diffilculty levels let's give everyone, if they grind hard enough a BFG-9000so they can blast through anywhere and get their titles'

A few people(and I probably put myself in this catagory) wish they did the first option, to get back some of the balance and skills required in prophecies days. Realistically, people in general love being able to just rampage through areas with almost impunity which is why we have what we have today.

PvE, is by Anets design meant to be broken. Throw any idea of thinking, careful or balanced play out of your mind and just get with the zap-pow-splat..

manitoba1073 · Jul 14, 2009, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

How ironic. The person calling others ignorant is being ignorant himself. Sorry to inform you, but your post is full of fail. You shouldn't take my statement so literal. Of course they didn't solo every single enemy, there's no point in that. But they solo'd every quest, which is still ridiculously retarded.

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7343/33minduouw.jpg - 33 mins, sin and ele
http://ske.gwzocker.de/hayman/duouw3.jpg - 39 mins, 2 sins
http://www.imgbox.de/?img=g29111x29.jpg - 40 mins, 2 sins
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/a...0&d=1245674396 - 46 mins, 2 sins

And for the hell if it:

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8703/gw166g.jpg - 1:14, 1 sin

Sorry, you were saying? Next time you wanna say someone's post is full of fail and BS, you might wanna look around a bit. It helps to make you look less like an ass. I'm so sorry that you took the statement literally.

Wrong again. Hate to break the news but you showed your self wrong. Notice ur own damn quote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Two assassins can solo the entire the UW in 33 minutes, which is ridiculous.

Just throwing it out there.

Yet you shown 1 sin and 1 ele. Not 2 sins.

As I said try again. And the rest of your SS show exactly the overstatements

Neither are ENTIRE CLEARS like you stated. So come on, put up or shut up.

They are as I said skipping about 90% of the underworld. Plain and simple.

Fril the only thing arkantos has shown is that they did the quests and not the entire clears they are claiming. Period.

And to refresh your memories

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Two assassins can solo the entire the UW in 33 minutes, which is ridiculous.

Just throwing it out there.

NOT skipping 90% of the areas. That is a big difference. Keep trying to spin it.

UnChosen · Jul 14, 2009, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Exactly! SF in ordinary situations are really not that great.

As a solo farm, a lot of other classes can also do the same thing with the same or higher efficiency. The only area that sin farm used to have an advantage, the chaos planes in UW, had been nerfed.

A perma in pugs is only a slightly better tank and most groups still fail because they ain't prepared for AoE scatter. Not to mention any areas with traps/signet/touch skills becomes strictly off limit to a perma tank.

As a runner, most classes have just effective an option, not to mention a 600 duo/trio can clear dungeons while perma cannot.

The fact that a perma has to use up 3 skill slots to maintain, and the fact that the energy cost is so intensive now that they need to use at least another slot for energy management means that the character can't do other stuff with much efficiency. Of course there is one exception....

The only scenario where Shadow Form can be qualified as OP is the UW/FoWSC, which does not represent the other 99% of the game. And the run is only possible because its possible to do multiple areas at the same time which allows multiple perma to substantially increase the speed. The solution is to just adjust the area, not nerfing the skill.

I guess I'll have to requote myself. Since the entire argument is revolving around the UWSC constantly, then just NERF THE AREA! All they have to do is the program in a "need all players to go past a check point" just like DoA and force all 8 players to be in the same place for the quest to trigger!

As I already said the perma build in non-speed clear situations generally become only average farmers or an uber tank for pugs. Monks and other class can out farm the perma in a lot of areas, and being a super tank only give a slight advantage to the already inferior tank n spank build. There is no need to "destroy" the skill in any manner.

Arkantos · Jul 14, 2009, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Wrong again. Hate to break the news but you showed your self wrong. Notice ur own damn quote.

Yet you shown 1 sin and 1 ele. Not 2 sins.

As I said try again. And the rest of your SS show exactly the overstatements

Neither are ENTIRE CLEARS like you stated. So come on, put up or shut up.

They are as I said skipping about 90% of the underworld. Plain and simple.

Fril the only thing arkantos has shown is that they did the quests and not the entire clears they are claiming. Period.

And to refresh your memories

NOT skipping 90% of the areas. That is a big difference. Keep trying to spin it.

Why are you arguing against something that you misunderstood? No, they cannot kill every single monster in the area, you're right. However, I never meant for you to take entire clear that literally, I'm sorry you misunderstood. You're the one misunderstanding my statement and spinning it. Generally an entire clear of UW/FoW/DoA is doing all the quests. That's what most people refer to it as. Killing every single moster is pointless and a waste of time. Yes, it's a sin and an ele. I'm so sorry that I was wrong about that, not that it makes any difference.

Bottom line is, the fact that two assassins/an assassin and an ele/possibly 2 eles can duo all the quests in that amount of time is dumb, and shows why SF needs to be nerfed.

Quote:

I guess I'll have to requote myself. Since the entire argument is revolving around the UWSC constantly, then just NERF THE AREA! All they have to do is the program in a "need all players to go past a check point" just like DoA and force all 8 players to be in the same place for the quest to trigger!

As I already said the perma build in non-speed clear situations generally become only average farmers or an uber tank for pugs. Monks and other class can out farm the perma in a lot of areas, and being a super tank only give a slight advantage to the already inferior tank n spank build. There is no need to "destroy" the skill in any manner.

Yes, they can do that. That doesn't make it so SF isn't ridiculously overpowered, though. The fact is, a SF sin can tank a million enemies, and it can still do impressive damage. The skill is still going to be overpowered.

There is a need to destroy the skill. A single skill that allows you to become invincible against most enemies in the game should not be in the game. You might as well add a skill that makes all enemies within earshot do 0 damage.

The skill does not belong in Guild Wars.

fenix · Jul 14, 2009, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Wrong again. Hate to break the news but you showed your self wrong. Notice ur own damn quote.

Yet you shown 1 sin and 1 ele. Not 2 sins.

As I said try again. And the rest of your SS show exactly the overstatements

Neither are ENTIRE CLEARS like you stated. So come on, put up or shut up.

They are as I said skipping about 90% of the underworld. Plain and simple.

Fril the only thing arkantos has shown is that they did the quests and not the entire clears they are claiming. Period.

And to refresh your memories

NOT skipping 90% of the areas. That is a big difference. Keep trying to spin it.

Get with the times, all the quests IS an entire clear. You're failing so hard at this thread.

Fril Estelin · Jul 14, 2009, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Wrong again. Hate to break the news but you showed your self wrong. Notice ur own damn quote.

Don't you see the "39 mins, 2 sins", "40 mins, 2 sins" and "46 mins, 2 sins" links?

Quote:

Fril the only thing arkantos has shown is that they did the quests and not the entire clears they are claiming. Period.

10 quests out of 10 is not an entire clear? It's the one that gives you the HoM statue. No one is going to vanquish UW?